Peter Thiel (Facebook Board of Directors) – A Conversation with Peter Thiel and Niall Ferguson (Apr 2021)


Chapters

00:00:07 Harvard Forum on Innovation and Empire
00:03:06 Two-Speed World: Innovation in Bits, Stagnation in Stuff
00:10:55 Why Has Innovation Thrived in Bits but Stagnated in Stuff?
00:13:21 Technology, Progress, and Economic Disparities
00:21:24 Audience Questions on Electronic Medical Records and Facebook's Potential Role
00:24:10 Challenges in Reforming Healthcare and Investing in Technology
00:29:48 Restarting Growth in the Developed World
00:32:28 Assessing the Value of Higher Education in a Changing Economic Landscape
00:42:27 Challenges in Promoting Nuclear Power in a Deregulated Energy Market
00:45:22 Information Overload and the Potential of Big Data
00:50:26 Government Innovation: The Role of Conflict and Welfare
00:53:31 Motivating Technological Progress in the Absence of War
00:55:31 Long-Term Technological Progress and Genetic Manipulation
00:58:22 Technological Innovation and Education: Challenges and Solutions
01:03:45 Innovation in Leadership and Business

Abstract



“Innovation in the Modern World: Insights from Peter Thiel and Neil Ferguson at the JFK Jr. Forum”

At the prestigious John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum, Peter Thiel, renowned for his diverse achievements including founding PayPal and investing in Facebook, along with historian Neil Ferguson, author of “Civilization”, delved into critical contemporary issues ranging from the sustainability of the current tech boom, the dichotomy of globalization versus technological progress, and the challenges in innovating within the physical world. Thiel’s insights, moderated by Ferguson, highlighted key concerns such as the stagnation in tangible goods innovation due to regulatory hurdles, the impact of technology on society, and the pressing need for a balanced approach to technological advancement in various sectors including healthcare and education.

Trey Grayson, the director of the Institute of Politics, welcomes the audience to the John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum. The forum is a partnership between the IOP and the Harvard Program on Constitutional Government under Professor Harvey Mansfield.

Introduction to the Forum:

The John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum, a collaboration between the Institute of Politics and the Harvard Program on Constitutional Government, was inaugurated by Professor Harvey Mansfield. He introduced the evening’s moderator, Neil Ferguson, a distinguished historian and author, followed by the introduction of the speaker, Peter Thiel, a multifaceted entrepreneur, investor, and author.

Tech Boom and Innovation Stagnation:

Peter Thiel proposed a contrast between the current tech boom and the 1990s dot-com bubble, suggesting the current phase is more sustainably grounded with rational valuations. However, he expressed concerns about the stagnation in various sectors. He pointed out that transportation speeds haven’t improved since the 1970s, and both conventional and alternative energy sources are becoming costlier. The biomedical sector, according to Thiel, is also lagging, with a reduction in new drug development and major pharmaceutical companies cutting back on research. Thiel observed significant progress in computer and financial engineering but noted a lack of advancement in other physical goods. He believes the tech industry, in its bubble, overvalues the impact of computers while undervaluing sectors like agriculture.

Addressing economic growth and technological progress, Thiel underscored the global lack of growth, leading to a zero-sum mentality. He emphasized that developed countries need to rekindle their entrepreneurial spirit and risk-taking, coupled with an environment fostering innovation and investment. Thiel highlighted the importance of deregulation, realism, and problem-specific solutions to overcome these challenges.

Globalization vs. Technological Progress:

Thiel discussed two distinct development trajectories: globalization leading to horizontal growth in developing countries and technological progress marking vertical growth in developed nations. He emphasized the need for genuine innovation, cautioning against merely following trends, as it’s often too late once a trend becomes apparent.

Technology’s Impact on Society:

Contrasting with Silicon Valley’s usual optimism, Thiel emphasized technology’s uneven progress. He noted advancements in virtual spaces but not in areas like energy and transportation. Thiel drew a distinction between progress in the world of bits (virtual, digital) and the world of stuff (physical). He advocated for balanced technological progress, including sectors like agriculture, which are facing stagnation. He also highlighted the discrepancy between tech experts’ optimistic views and the general public’s more pessimistic sentiments regarding the future.

Regulation, Deregulation, and Economic Policy:

Thiel discussed the complex relationship between regulation, innovation, and economic policies. He expressed skepticism about current economic approaches in the context of slow technological advancement and the risks associated with deregulation. Thiel critiqued the liberal perspective that deregulation led to inequality, arguing instead that overregulation in various sectors stifled innovation and confined people to underperforming industries. He advocated for heavy deregulation in the tech industry, as it has led to focus and innovation in computers and finance but has neglected other important sectors.

Challenges in Healthcare Technology:

Addressing the intersection of Facebook’s technology and healthcare, Thiel criticized the U.S. healthcare system’s technological backwardness and advocated for engineering-focused solutions. While acknowledging Facebook’s potential in improving medical record systems, he noted his inability to provide a direct answer due to Facebook’s quiet period following its S1 filing. Thiel urged a broader discussion on technology’s role in healthcare, emphasizing the lack of technocratic solutions and a focus on minor issues. He also pointed out the policymakers’ oversight in implementing technological advancements in healthcare.

Growth, Innovation, and Education:

Thiel identified the higher education system as a bubble, emphasizing the need for intrinsic motivation over mere competition. He highlighted the need for innovative approaches in K-12 education and the potential role of technology in enhancing educational outcomes. Thiel argued that innovation is most vibrant during a company’s founding period, advocating for founders to maintain control to preserve innovation. He critiqued the higher education system’s disregard for return on investment and the importance of learning for the sake of knowledge. Thiel maintained that innovation is most potent during a company’s founding and urged founders to retain control as long as possible.

Environmentalism, Energy, and Innovation:

Thiel proposed pragmatic solutions like nuclear power to address environmental challenges, emphasizing the need for realism in environmentalism and advocating for deregulated energy markets to spur innovation. He acknowledged environmentalism’s role in regulating industries but criticized the accumulation of regulations without proper evaluation. Thiel advocated for more realistic and honest environmentalism, considering alternatives like nuclear power. He recognized nuclear power’s reliability and cost-effectiveness compared to trendy green technologies. Thiel acknowledged the need for some regulation of nuclear power but stressed finding a balance to prevent excessive delays and obstacles. He also recognized the potential for innovation in open intelligence but noted the broad nature of the question.

Big Data and Government’s Role in Innovation:

Thiel discussed the potential of big data in consumer applications, mentioning his venture, Palantir, and its role in national security. He called for a balance between innovation and government intervention, emphasizing the private sector’s leading role in technological advancements. The computer revolution has led to an overwhelming amount of data, posing challenges for individuals and organizations in managing and utilizing this information efficiently. Consumer applications could help individuals discover products and services tailored to their needs by leveraging data insights. Palantir, a company founded by Thiel, addresses big data challenges in national security and enterprise contexts. It applies technology developed at PayPal to combat fraud and applies it to prevent terrorism, conspiracies, and criminal activities. The company’s approach combines and analyzes information from various sources to address the significant hurdles posed by the volume and diversity of data. Thiel emphasized the importance of technological solutions to security problems, arguing that their absence often leads to draconian responses and a reduction in civil liberties. He believes that software capable of connecting dots and preventing attacks is both morally right and utilitarian.

War, Conflict, and Technological Progress:

Ferguson raised the point that major conflicts historically spurred government-driven innovation. Thiel questioned the government’s capacity for innovation in peaceful times, underscoring the current challenges in motivating technological progress. He believes that a government aggressively pushing science and technology would lead to technological progress. However, he noted the current government’s lack of focus on scientific advancement. Thiel cited the Manhattan Project as an example of government-led scientific achievement and the rapid development of the nuclear bomb under government direction. He presented the scientific pro-government perspective, arguing that government-organized scientists can achieve more than the private sector. However, he suggested that this perspective is outdated. Thiel criticized the current government for focusing on horizontal solutions, such as copying and distributing existing technologies, rather than vertical innovation, which involves creating new things. Both Democrat and Republican parties prioritize horizontal expansion over vertical innovation. Ferguson and Thiel discussed whether conflict is necessary for federal government innovation, with Thiel suggesting that peace may lead to welfare-focused policies, while warfare can stimulate innovation.

The Business of Innovation:

Thiel reflected on the intricacies of founding and selling businesses.

Motivation for Technological Progress:

War has historically been a motivator for technological progress, but its unthinkable nature today may limit its effectiveness. Identifying other motivators, such as terrorism and climate change, is crucial. Major governments, including the federal government, struggle to respond to current threats with groundbreaking innovations. These threats are not seen as priorities, and technology is viewed as self-sufficient, with a prevailing belief that these problems will solve themselves. Public good and government’s role in subsidizing clean tech are acknowledged. However, the approach has been more of a financial portfolio theory, lacking substantive consideration of what might work. Thiel criticized Obama’s response, suggesting the need for high-risk, high-reward investments rather than avoiding failures.

Supplemental Update:

Clean tech companies that demonstrate success are lacking, and the government does not adequately address substantive issues such as technology effectiveness. Political critiques focus on procedural violations rather than the technology’s viability. Ethical issues are less significant if the technology works, as seen in the case of the Transcontinental Railroad. Long-term wealth creation requires a focus on innovation and technological advancement. Genetic manipulation and IQ enhancement could potentially lead to a highly intelligent species, unlocking vast wealth and resources. However, ethical considerations and the concept of a perfect human race raise concerns and may not be widely accepted or desirable.

The deceleration of technological progress and its impact was also discussed. Malthus’s prediction of population growth outpacing resources was accurate until the Industrial Revolution. The exponential technological progress of recent centuries has been an exception to the historical norm. The potential end or deceleration of this progress poses a significant challenge. The role of technology in K-12 education needs improvement. Government efficiency can be enhanced by adopting a “do more with less” approach and utilizing technology in areas such as healthcare and education. The decision to sell a business involves complex considerations and can lead to the end of its innovation cycle.

Peter Thiel believes that the founding period of a company is crucial for innovation, which often declines after the founding period ends. Thiel argues that Apple made a mistake in 1985 when they viewed computers like Pepsi and stopped innovating. Founders are more likely to innovate than non-founders, and they should maintain control of their companies as long as possible to ensure continued innovation.


Notes by: MythicNeutron