Nathan Myhrvold (Intellectual Ventures Co-founder) – NYT Interview (Apr 2016)
Chapters
00:00:35 Modernist Cuisine: Revelations from a Chef, a Scientist, and a Journalist
Early Culinary Experiments: At nine years old, Nathan Myhrvold embarked on a unique Thanksgiving dinner project, using Escoffier’s cookbook despite its lack of traditional dishes and cooking instructions. He later collaborated with his younger brother to create “Firecracker Surprise,” a dish that involved flambeing and nearly injuring elderly relatives.
Balancing Tech and Culinary Pursuits: While working at Microsoft, Myhrvold’s interest in food set him apart from his tech-focused colleagues. He sought to pursue a professional culinary education but faced challenges due to his lack of formal experience. Through perseverance and a connection made by a previous graduate of the chef school, he secured training at a French restaurant in Seattle.
Work-Life Balance: Myhrvold managed his time between Microsoft and the restaurant, working long hours and prioritizing his passion for cooking. He credits his ability to manage this demanding schedule to the flexibility offered by his role at Microsoft.
Bill Gates’ Response to Myhrvold’s Culinary Interests: Bill Gates, Myhrvold’s former colleague at Microsoft, was initially puzzled by Myhrvold’s request for a leave of absence to attend a chef school in France. Years later, Gates expressed his appreciation for Myhrvold’s cookbook, Modernist Cuisine, and became the only person to open the book.
Inspiration behind Modernist Cuisine: After leaving Microsoft, Myhrvold sought a comprehensive resource on the latest cooking techniques, inspired by the use of science and equipment in cooking. He discovered a lack of such a reference, leading him to explore the online platform eGullet, where professional and home cooks shared their knowledge and experiences.
Challenges in Learning New Techniques: Myhrvold realized that learning new cooking techniques was challenging due to the limited opportunities for apprenticeships or stagiaires in top kitchens. He acknowledged the contributions of food science experts like Harold McGee, who discussed the impact of science on cooking in his 1984 book, “On Food and Cooking.”
Sous Vide Cooking: Sous vide cooking involves cooking food at low heat in water, typically in a sealed bag. This method allows for precise temperature control and minimizes overcooking.
The Role of High Heat in Traditional Cooking: Traditional cooking methods often involve high heat to quickly sear or cook food. High heat can create a desirable crust or texture, but it also requires precise timing to prevent overcooking.
Timing Challenges in High-Heat Cooking: The use of high heat in traditional cooking requires careful timing to achieve the desired doneness. Overcooking can occur easily if the food is not removed from the heat source at the right moment.
Benefits of Sous Vide Cooking: Sous vide cooking eliminates the need for precise timing, as the food is cooked at a constant low temperature. This method ensures even cooking throughout the food and reduces the risk of overcooking.
Computer Modeling of Heat Transfer in Food: The speaker used computer modeling to simulate how heat moves through food during sous vide cooking. This modeling helped to understand the nuances of heat transfer and optimize the cooking process.
Introduction of Sous Vide Cooking: Sous vide cooking involves cooking food in vacuum-sealed bags submerged in a precisely controlled water bath. It allows chefs to achieve precise and consistent results, preserving the natural flavors and textures of the food.
Cooking Time and Thickness: The time required to cook food using sous vide depends on the thickness of the food. Thicker items take significantly longer to cook compared to thinner ones due to the rate of heat transfer through conduction. This principle explains the difference between cooking a steak and a roast, where the cooking time varies based on the thickness of the meat.
Diffusion and Cooking Time: The rate of heat transfer through conduction, known as diffusion, scales roughly with the square of the thickness. As a result, doubling the thickness of the food approximately quadruples the cooking time. This relationship between thickness and cooking time is often overlooked in cookbooks.
Sous Vide Cookbook: The speaker highlights the lack of information in cookbooks regarding the relationship between thickness and cooking time. The speaker emphasizes the importance of adjusting cooking times based on the thickness of the food to achieve optimal results.
00:16:18 Cooking as Art and Craft: Understanding the Why and How
Love-Driven Design: Speaker 01 highlights two approaches to product design: market-driven and passion-driven. The market-driven approach focuses on consumer research and creating products based on customer preferences. In contrast, the passion-driven approach involves creating products that the creator loves and hopes others will appreciate.
Art and Craft in Cooking: Cooking can be both an art and a craft, with a distinction between high art and artisan endeavors. Food has the ability to deeply engage our emotions and thoughts, potentially reaching an artistic level. Empowering people with cooking knowledge allows them to elevate cooking from a craft to an art form, enabling them to experiment and create dishes that reflect their personal tastes.
Challenging Conventional Cooking: The speaker questions the necessity of using traditional cooking methods and tools when modern techniques and equipment can provide greater precision and control. The use of immersion circulators, centrifuges, and other innovative tools allows chefs to explore new culinary possibilities and create dishes that were previously unattainable.
Understanding How Cooking Works: The speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding the science behind cooking, regardless of one’s cooking style or preferences. The speaker’s book, “Modernist Cuisine,” aims to explain the processes involved in cooking through detailed explanations and cutaway photos, empowering readers to make informed decisions about their culinary creations.
Artistic Expression in Cooking: Cooking, like other art forms, can challenge, disturb, and even anger people, but this is part of its artistic value. Cooking can be used as a medium for self-expression, allowing chefs to communicate their ideas and emotions through their creations.
Building a Laboratory: The speaker created a laboratory in a machine shop, chemistry lab, and biology lab to develop recipes for the Modernist Cuisine at Home cookbook. The lab was located in a rented building that had extra space.
Salad Science: The speaker believes that salads are often done poorly and can be improved by understanding the principles behind them. Principles include combinations of flavors and textures. Rather than following recipes, cooks should understand the principles and adapt them to available ingredients.
Dressing Techniques: The speaker recommends dressing a salad by hand to evenly distribute the dressing. This method uses less oil and is less caloric than traditional methods. The speaker prefers to add salt at the end of the salad preparation to create a kick of saltiness. Concentrated salt gives a stronger impression of saltiness and allows for less overall salt usage.
00:26:24 Sous Vide Cooking Techniques: From Hot Tubs to Blowtorches
Sous Vide Fundamentals: Sous vide involves cooking food at low temperatures by immersing it in hot water. This method ensures even cooking and precise temperature control. Water has excellent heat transfer properties, making it suitable for sous vide cooking.
DIY Sous Vide Options: Expensive equipment is not necessary for sous vide. A hot tub, sink, or cooler can be used as a makeshift sous vide setup. Simply heat water to the desired temperature and immerse the food in a sealed Ziploc bag.
Sous Vide Salmon: Salmon is a great candidate for sous vide cooking. Ideal temperature range for salmon is between 104 degrees and 113 degrees Fahrenheit. At 104 degrees, the salmon will appear raw but will be cooked through. At 113 degrees, the salmon will have a cooked appearance.
Tailgater Steak Recipe: Fill a cooler with hot water and place sealed steak bags inside. The high water-to-steak ratio ensures sufficient residual heat. After four hours, grill the steaks briefly to create a crust.
Blowtorch for Searing: Investing in a blowtorch is recommended for searing steaks. Blowtorches provide high heat that can be directed to specific areas. This allows for precise searing of the steak’s edges and surfaces.
Deep Fry Method: After sous vide cooking, steaks can be briefly deep-fried in oil. This method adds a crispy outer layer while preserving the tender interior of the steak.
High Heat Cooking: Sous vide is particularly useful for cooking with high heat. Traditional high-heat cooking methods often result in overcooked edges and undercooked centers. Sous vide allows for even cooking throughout the steak, eliminating the thick gray bands of overcooked meat.
00:30:41 Modernist Cuisine: Rethinking Traditional Cooking Techniques
Why Cooking Techniques Matter: Cooking the center and surface of food separately allows for different textures and flavors. Blowtorching, deep-frying, or shallow-frying can create a browned sear while leaving the interior undercooked.
Alternative Steak Cooking Method: Freeze a steak, then sear it in a cast iron pan with high heat oil until browned. Place the seared steak in an oven at a low temperature to cook the interior perfectly.
Barbecue and Grilling: Grilling involves cooking meat over high heat, creating fat flare-ups for flavor. Smoking involves cooking meat with low heat and wood chips for a smoky flavor.
Controlling Temperature in a Weber Grill: Use a small fire with few briquettes and soaked wood chips to create smoke. Add ice to the grill to lower the temperature and achieve a desired range of 140-190 degrees.
Aromatic Compounds in Cooking: When food smells good, it means volatile flavor compounds have evaporated and are no longer in the food. Simmering food for hours can result in a loss of flavor compounds, despite the pleasant aroma in the kitchen.
Scent in Cookie Stores: Vanilla extract is often boiled in the back of cookie stores to create an appealing aroma, rather than relying solely on baking smells.
Traditionalists’ Perspective on Modernist Cuisine: Traditional chefs may criticize modernist cuisine without experiencing it firsthand. Seeing the results and techniques of modernist cooking can change perceptions and reduce criticism.
00:37:52 Modern Cooking Techniques for Traditional Dishes
Using Sous Vide Techniques for Traditional Dishes: Sous vide cooking offers versatile methods for preparing traditional dishes without plastic bags. Complex dishes like roast chicken pose challenges in balancing moisture and crispiness.
Syringes in Roast Chicken: Injecting flavors and liquids into roast chicken enhances its taste and texture. Achieving the best version of a dish, even if it’s considered ordinary, is a worthy goal.
The Ultimate Hamburger and Ice Cream: Striving for the ultimate version of popular dishes like hamburgers and ice cream is a worthwhile pursuit. Vegan pistachio gelato, made with a mild flavor profile, can be as good as or better than traditional ice cream.
Challenges of Pistachio Ice Cream: Pistachio’s mild flavor can be easily masked by the addition of cream and eggs. Many chefs resort to adding almond extract to compensate for the lack of pistachio flavor.
00:40:28 Unconventional Techniques in Culinary Science
Culinary Innovations: Pistachio ice cream made with pistachio oil and ground pistachios, offering intense flavor and perfect texture. Hyper decanting involves blending wine to enhance its smoothness and drinkability.
Role of the Centrifuge: Centrifuge separates food components by density, accelerating the process compared to natural settling.
Wine Decanting: Decanting wine improves its taste, especially younger red wines. Hyper decanting involves blending wine in a blender, providing additional benefits and an entertaining spectacle.
Blind Taste Test: Hyper decanted wine often wins in blind taste tests, even against expensive, vintage wines.
Unexpected Approval: A top winemaker in Spain, initially skeptical, was impressed by the results of hyper decanting his favorite wine.
Ingredients and Chemicals in Our Pantries: Ingredients like agar agar, xanthan gum, sodium citrate, and malic acid, often perceived as “chemicals,” are prevalent in our kitchens. These ingredients have been used in various cultures for centuries, and their inclusion in our pantries is beneficial and should not be stigmatized.
Sodium Citrate and Cheese Melting: Sodium citrate, also known as sour salt, is an ingredient commonly used in the Passover Seder and in mac and cheese recipes. It prevents cheese from separating and becoming stringy, allowing for a smooth and flavorful cheese sauce without the need for excessive starch, which can dull the cheese flavor.
Informed Cooking and the Integration of Science: Science is an integral part of cooking, as it helps us understand the laws of nature and how cooking works. By understanding the science behind cooking, we can elevate the taste and quality of our dishes and celebrate the ingredients we use.
False Dichotomies: Farm-to-Table and Wild Ingredients: The farm-to-table movement and the use of wild ingredients are not mutually exclusive with embracing science in cooking. Great cooking starts with great ingredients, and understanding how cooking works allows us to celebrate and enhance the flavors of these ingredients.
Pea Soup Innovation through Science: The authors’ innovative approach to pea soup involves splitting peas using a centrifuge, resulting in three components: pea broth, pea starch, and pea butter. This technique yields an intensely sweet pea broth, a flavorful pea butter, and a relatively tasteless pea starch.
Celebrating Ingredients: Harold McGee emphasizes the importance of celebrating the essential qualities of ingredients when cooking. He believes that peas, for example, should be celebrated for their “earthy” and “meaty” flavors. McGee uses a machine to spin peas at high speed, allowing him to taste them in new and unique ways.
Decanting Wine: There are two hypotheses about why decanting wine works: oxidation and outgassing. McGee conducted a test using a blender with pure nitrogen and pure oxygen and found that outgassing, not oxidation, appears to be the more important factor. Various gases, such as sulfur dioxide, CO2, and volatile acids, are present in wine and are released during the outgassing process.
Mysteries of Cooking: McGee believes that there are still many mysteries in cooking that have yet to be solved. He provides the example of decanting wine, where the exact mechanism by which it improves the taste of wine is still not fully understood. McGee encourages further research to uncover these mysteries and deepen our understanding of cooking.
Harold McGee’s Philosophical Approach: McGee can be characterized as an omnivore, open to trying and appreciating a wide variety of foods. He also has a libertarian philosophy, believing in individual freedom and choice. These two aspects of McGee’s philosophy influence his views on issues such as the foie gras ban in California.
00:54:54 The Ethics of Food Production and Consumption
The Foie Gras Controversy: The speaker has visited a foie gras farm in Hudson Valley and witnessed the force-feeding process. Ducks are kept in small pens and force-fed a measured amount of grain using a funnel attached to an electric drill. The speaker argues that this method is not particularly cruel compared to other methods of slaughtering animals for food. Ultimately, the speaker believes the foie gras ban is based on gimmicks and hypocrisy.
Ethical Consumption and Individual Choice: The speaker respects the ethical decision of individuals to refrain from eating meat. However, the speaker criticizes hypocrisy in the food industry, particularly regarding organic food.
Organic Food and Mislabeling: The organic movement has been undercut by companies exploiting loopholes and mislabeling products. The original U.S. Department of Agriculture organic standards allowed 10 non-organic ingredients, which have now increased to 200. Big food companies mass-produce organic products, diluting the original concept of organic farming.
Nitrite-Free Bacon and Misleading Labels: Some natural food chains sell nitrite-free bacon that is still red and tastes like bacon. This is achieved by using concentrated celery juice, which is high in nitrites. This practice is misleading and undermines the trust consumers place in organic and natural food labels.
Abstract
Nathan Myhrvold: Blending Culinary Art, Science, and Innovation in Modernist Cuisine
Nathan Myhrvold’s journey from a tech expert to a culinary innovator encapsulates the essence of modernist cuisine, where the boundaries of cooking are constantly being redefined. Starting with an ambitious Thanksgiving feast at age nine, Myhrvold’s culinary career spans attending chef school in France to publishing “Modernist Cuisine,” a groundbreaking book that marries cooking with scientific principles. This article delves into the intricacies of Myhrvold’s work, exploring how he challenges conventional cooking methods, employs cutting-edge techniques like sous vide and centrifuge, and addresses the art and craft of cooking. It also touches upon the broader aspects of food science, including the critique of the organic movement and the controversial practice of force-feeding ducks for foie gras.
Nathan Myhrvold’s Culinary Journey:
At nine years old, Nathan Myhrvold embarked on a unique Thanksgiving dinner project, using Escoffier’s cookbook despite its lack of traditional dishes and cooking instructions. He later collaborated with his younger brother to create “Firecracker Surprise,” a dish that involved flambeing and nearly injuring elderly relatives.
Nathan Myhrvold’s culinary narrative is one of passion and innovation. His journey, beginning with a Thanksgiving meal at nine, led him through the fields of technology and cuisine. His work at Microsoft did not hinder his culinary ambitions; instead, he immersed himself in the art, studying in France and working in a Seattle restaurant. His encounter with modernist cuisine, sparked at Heston Blumenthal’s Fat Duck, inspired his seminal work, “Modernist Cuisine.” The success of this book birthed The Cooking Lab, a hub for culinary research, and later, “Modernist Cuisine at Home,” making avant-garde cooking techniques accessible to home chefs.
The Science Behind Cooking:
The intersection of cooking with science, particularly in methods like sous vide, unveils a new culinary dimension. This technique, favoring low heat and prolonged cooking, contrasts traditional high-heat methods, revealing insights into heat transfer in foods. Such scientific approaches also explain why thicker foods take longer to cook, a principle evident in the difference between cooking steaks and roasts.
Sous vide cooking involves cooking food at low heat in water, typically in a sealed bag. This method allows for precise temperature control and minimizes overcooking. Traditional cooking methods often involve high heat to quickly sear or cook food. High heat can create a desirable crust or texture, but it also requires precise timing to prevent overcooking. Cooking at high temperatures necessitates careful timing to ensure the desired doneness. If the food is not removed from the heat source at the right moment, overcooking can easily occur. Sous vide cooking eliminates the need for precise timing as the food cooks at a constant low temperature. This method ensures uniform cooking throughout the food and minimizes the risk of overcooking.
The rate of heat transfer through conduction, known as diffusion, scales roughly with the square of the thickness. As a result, doubling the thickness of the food approximately quadruples the cooking time. This relationship between thickness and cooking time is often overlooked in cookbooks. The speaker highlights the lack of information in cookbooks regarding the relationship between thickness and cooking time. The speaker emphasizes the importance of adjusting cooking times based on the thickness of the food to achieve optimal results.
Cooking Techniques and Modernist Cuisine:
Cooking the center and surface of food separately allows for different textures and flavors. Techniques like blowtorching, deep-frying, or shallow-frying can create a browned sear while leaving the interior undercooked.
Alternative Steak Cooking Method:
Freeze a steak, then sear it in a cast iron pan with high heat oil until browned. Place the seared steak in an oven at a low temperature to cook the interior perfectly.
Barbecue and Grilling:
Grilling involves cooking meat over high heat, creating fat flare-ups for flavor. Smoking involves cooking meat with low heat and wood chips for a smoky flavor.
Controlling Temperature in a Weber Grill:
Use a small fire with few briquettes and soaked wood chips to create smoke. Add ice to the grill to lower the temperature and achieve a desired range of 140-190 degrees.
Ingredients and Chemicals in Our Pantries:
Ingredients like agar agar, xanthan gum, sodium citrate, and malic acid, often perceived as “chemicals,” are prevalent in our kitchens. These ingredients have been used in various cultures for centuries, and their inclusion in our pantries is beneficial and should not be stigmatized.
Sodium Citrate and Cheese Melting:
Sodium citrate, also known as sour salt, is an ingredient commonly used in the Passover Seder and in mac and cheese recipes. It prevents cheese from separating and becoming stringy, allowing for a smooth and flavorful cheese sauce without the need for excessive starch, which can dull the cheese flavor.
Art and Craft in Cooking:
Cooking, at its core, is both an art and a craft. Myhrvold emphasizes this duality, where the artistry lies in creating emotionally engaging dishes, and the craft focuses on technical proficiency and recipe adherence. This balance empowers cooks to experiment and innovate, giving rise to unique culinary creations.
Informed Cooking and the Integration of Science:
Science is an integral part of cooking, as it helps us understand the laws of nature and how cooking works. By understanding the science behind cooking, we can elevate the taste and quality of our dishes and celebrate the ingredients we use.
Challenging Conventional Cooking Norms:
Modernist cuisine, as advocated by Myhrvold, is a rebellion against traditional cooking practices. It’s an exploration of new possibilities in culinary creativity, driven by a profound understanding of cooking processes. Detailed explanations and visual guides in cookbooks enable cooks to grasp the science behind various techniques, fostering an environment of informed culinary experimentation.
False Dichotomies: Farm-to-Table and Wild Ingredients:
The farm-to-table movement and the use of wild ingredients are not mutually exclusive with embracing science in cooking. Great cooking starts with great ingredients, and understanding how cooking works allows us to celebrate and enhance the flavors of these ingredients.
Practical Insights into Cooking Techniques:
Myhrvold’s approach extends to practical aspects of cooking, like salad preparation, where he stresses the importance of flavor balance and texture. His tips include using a light dressing touch and adding coarse salt at the end for a flavor burst. Similarly, his home cooking lab symbolizes this practicality, equipped with common kitchen gear for recipe development, reflecting a simulated home kitchen environment.
Pea Soup Innovation through Science:
The authors’ innovative approach to pea soup involves splitting peas using a centrifuge, resulting in three components: pea broth, pea starch, and pea butter. This technique yields an intensely sweet pea broth, a flavorful pea butter, and a relatively tasteless pea starch.
Celebrating Ingredients:
Harold McGee emphasizes the importance of celebrating the essential qualities of ingredients when cooking. He believes that peas, for example, should be celebrated for their “earthy” and “meaty” flavors. McGee uses a machine to spin peas at high speed, allowing him to taste them in new and unique ways.
Sous Vide Cooking Demystified:
Sous vide cooking epitomizes Myhrvold’s innovative approach, allowing precise temperature control and even cooking. This method, accessible using everyday items like a cooler or a Ziploc bag, offers unique textures and flavors. It also addresses the challenge of overcooking, especially in meats, by maintaining a consistent low temperature, supplemented by various searing techniques for added texture and flavor.
Decanting Wine:
There are two hypotheses about why decanting wine works: oxidation and outgassing. McGee conducted a test using a blender with pure nitrogen and pure oxygen and found that outgassing, not oxidation, appears to be the more important factor. Various gases, such as sulfur dioxide, CO2, and volatile acids, are present in wine and are released during the outgassing process.
Culinary Innovations and Challenges:
Myhrvold’s work encompasses a range of culinary innovations, from creating a vegan pistachio gelato that doesn’t compromise on flavor to using a centrifuge for ingredient separation. His approach to wine decanting, termed ‘hyper decanting,’ challenges traditional methods, often outperforming them in blind taste tests. These innovations exemplify the continual quest for culinary perfection, regardless of dish status or traditional views.
Mysteries of Cooking:
McGee believes that there are still many mysteries in cooking that have yet to be solved. He provides the example of decanting wine, where the exact mechanism by which it improves the taste of wine is still not fully understood. McGee encourages further research to uncover these mysteries and deepen our understanding of cooking.
Making the Best of Every Dish:
– Sous vide techniques can be used for traditional dishes without plastic bags.
– Roast chicken can be enhanced with syringes to inject flavors and liquids.
– The ultimate version of popular dishes like hamburgers and ice cream is worth pursuing.
A Journey into the World of Food Science and Culinary Innovation:
– Pistachio ice cream made with pistachio oil and ground pistachios offers intense flavor and perfect texture.
– Hyper decanting involves blending wine to enhance its smoothness and drinkability.
– Centrifuge separates food components by density, accelerating the process compared to natural settling.
– Hyper decanted wine often wins in blind taste tests, even against expensive, vintage wines.
Harold McGee’s Philosophical Approach:
McGee can be characterized as an omnivore, open to trying and appreciating a wide variety of foods. He also has a libertarian philosophy, believing in individual freedom and choice. These two aspects of McGee’s philosophy influence his views on issues such as the foie gras ban in California.
Nathan Myhrvold’s influence on modernist cuisine is a testament to the fusion of science, art, and technology in the culinary world. His work challenges traditional cooking norms, advocates for a deeper understanding of cooking processes, and introduces innovative techniques like sous vide and hyper decanting. This culinary journey, while focusing on Myhrvold’s achievements, also sheds light on broader food science topics, encouraging a more informed and exploratory approach to cooking and food consumption.
The Foie Gras Controversy:
The speaker has visited a foie gras farm in Hudson Valley and witnessed the force-feeding process. Ducks are kept in small pens and force-fed a measured amount of grain using a funnel attached to an electric drill. The speaker argues that this method is not particularly cruel compared to other methods of slaughtering animals for food. Ultimately, the speaker believes the foie gras ban is based on gimmicks and hypocrisy.
Ethical Consumption and Individual Choice:
The speaker respects the ethical decision of individuals to refrain from eating meat. However, the speaker criticizes hypocrisy in the food industry, particularly regarding organic food.
Organic Food and Mislabeling:
The organic movement has been undercut by companies exploiting loopholes and mislabeling products. The original U.S. Department of Agriculture organic standards allowed 10 non-organic ingredients, which have now increased to 200. Big food companies mass-produce organic products, diluting the original concept of organic farming.
Nitrite-Free Bacon and Misleading Labels:
Some natural food chains sell nitrite-free bacon that is still red and tastes like bacon. This is achieved by using concentrated celery juice, which is high in nitrites. This practice is misleading and undermines the trust consumers place in organic and natural food labels.
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