Introduction and Purpose:

Speaker 02 introduces the segment by highlighting the frequent appearances of Steve Jobs at their conference over 10 years. This segment serves as a tribute to Steve Jobs and aims to offer unique insights into his legacy from those closest to him.

Availability of Steve Jobs’ Talks:

The conference organizers plan to make all Steve Jobs’ appearances at the D conferences freely accessible on iTunes. This move is particularly noteworthy because some of these talks are not easily found online.

Guest Selection:

To provide an in-depth understanding of Steve Jobs’ influence and legacy, Speaker 02 invites Ed Catmull and Larry Ellison, two people who had a close relationship with Jobs. Ed Catmull worked with Jobs at Pixar, and Larry Ellison was perhaps his best friend.

Objective of the Conversation:

The goal is not just to celebrate Jobs but to explore the lessons that can be drawn from his life and career. Since many people have offered their opinions on Jobs’ legacy since his passing, the organizers believe that insights from Catmull and Ellison, who were intimately familiar with Jobs, would be particularly valuable.

Legacy Discussion:

The discussion aims to delve into the nuances of Jobs’ career to better understand how to possibly replicate his success or learn valuable lessons from it. The insights are expected to be especially compelling given the close relationship both speakers had with Jobs.

Misunderstanding Jobs’ Success:

Speaker 2 begins the discussion by noting that CEOs try to emulate Steve Jobs in superficial ways, such as wardrobe choices, without truly understanding the roots of his success. The conversation leads to an exploration of why Jobs was genuinely successful, beyond the public myths and stereotypes.

Adaptability and Evolution:

Ed Catmull, who worked closely with Jobs at Pixar, emphasizes that Jobs went through several distinct phases in his career. Initially misunderstood, Jobs learned from his mistakes. He became more empathetic and better at building partnerships over time. These transformations, Catmull believes, were instrumental to his success.

Focus on Culture and Environment:

Catmull also highlights the importance Jobs placed on work culture and the physical work environment. Jobs designed the Pixar building to foster a unique work culture that embodied his philosophy that “employees are the most valuable asset.”

Attention to Detail:

Larry Ellison speaks to Jobs’ attention to every “excruciating detail,” from product design to in-store experience. Ellison credits Jobs with an unparalleled commitment to achieving perfection, labelling him a “god of perspiration.”

The Importance of Implementation:

Ellison differentiates between good ideas and great products, stating that many have good ideas but few can execute them to create great products. He describes Jobs’ ability to work tirelessly, obsessing over each detail until perfection is achieved. This made Jobs unique, despite there being “a lot of good ideas.”

From Idea to Execution:

Ellison underlines the complexity of transforming a simple idea into a product. He refers to the development of the Macintosh computer, countering accusations that Jobs stole the concept from Xerox’s Alto. According to Ellison, the process required solving numerous complexities that Xerox had not addressed.

The overall impression from both speakers is that Steve Jobs’ success lay in a nuanced blend of continual learning, focus on detail, and relentless work ethic. His journey was one of adaptation, evolution, and tireless commitment to turning ideas into revolutionary products.

Steve Jobs and Storytelling:

Ed Catmull discusses how Steve Jobs was not involved in the story development at Pixar, defying some popular notions. Jobs trusted others’ expertise in their respective domains. However, his relationship with the directors was very good, as Jobs was himself a master storyteller. He would often put forth an idea and commit to it while expecting others to challenge him. If the idea didn’t work, he would go back to the drawing board, a trait he deeply respected in directors.

Jobs’ Versatile Leadership:

Jobs’ role differed significantly between Apple and Pixar. While deeply involved in even minor details at Apple, like the color of wood in Apple Stores, he had a hands-off approach at Pixar. Ed Catmull believes that Jobs was able to excel in both domains precisely because he knew when to be hands-on and when to step back. His heart was with Apple, but he valued the passion at Pixar.

Passion Over Profit:

Ed Catmull recounts an episode during the making of “A Bug’s Life,” highlighting Jobs’ willingness to trust his team’s passion. While Jobs initially argued against the film being widescreen due to marketing concerns, a red-faced argument with the production designer made him reconsider. Jobs valued passion as a critical part of the decision-making process, and because of the designer’s evident passion, the movie went out in widescreen.

This segment paints a complex picture of Jobs as a leader who knew how to adjust his involvement depending on the context. He was not just a micromanager or a hands-off leader, but someone who could be both, guided by a keen understanding of when to apply each approach.

Best Ideas Win:

Larry Ellison emphasizes that Steve Jobs was open to debating ideas. For Jobs, the origin of an idea was irrelevant; what mattered was its quality. Jobs valued robust debate and was willing to be persuaded. He was not autocratic, as often portrayed, but rather the final arbiter after a process that invited various viewpoints.

Swift Decision-Making:

Ellison describes Jobs as someone who could quickly adapt when presented with a better idea. This agility came from his focus on creating the best products, stores, or movies. Jobs could change his stance “like that, boom,” according to Ellison, emphasizing his dedication to the end goal over ego or vanity.

Listening and Pushback:

Both Ellison and Ed Catmull note that Jobs wanted people to argue back. He did not respect people who couldn’t defend their ideas. If someone had a valid point, Jobs would switch his position because, as Catmull put it, “there’s no percentage in being wrong.”

Intellectual Security:

Ellison counters the idea that Jobs was insecure by stating that Jobs was “intellectually secure.” He wasn’t embarrassed about initially being on the wrong side of an argument. His focus was solely on the outcome, selecting from a menu of the best ideas, irrespective of their origin.

Inspirational Leadership:

In response to Catmull’s comments on storytelling, Ellison describes Jobs as an inspirational and charismatic leader. Jobs knew how to motivate teams, particularly during grueling projects. His speeches were designed to remind people of their importance to the product, the company, and ultimately, the customers. He had a knack for making people feel that they were doing important work, compelling them to commit to his vision.

This discussion serves to debunk some myths about Steve Jobs as an autocratic leader, revealing instead a complex, intellectually secure individual deeply committed to excellence and open to the best ideas, regardless of their source.

Early Leadership Style:

The speakers discuss Steve Jobs’ early leadership style, characterizing it as brutal at times. Steve’s intense focus was on creating great products and pushing those around him to excel. His approach was less empathetic in the early days, which could be unsettling for team members.

Evolution in Leadership:

Steve Jobs matured as a leader over time. The speakers agree that he became more compassionate and easier to work with, learning to inspire rather than demean. However, the essentials of his genius were always present.

Lessons from Failures:

Steve Jobs’ ousting from Apple was partially attributed to his poor negotiation skills with the board and his unwillingness to smooth out his rough edges. One speaker suggests that Steve Jobs learned essential skills during his time away from Apple, allowing him to more effectively lead upon his return.

Board Dynamics in Tech:

Steve Jobs’ firing had lasting implications in Silicon Valley, fundamentally changing the relationship between tech founders and their boards. Newer tech leaders like Larry Page, Sergey Brin, and Mark Zuckerberg maintain more control over their companies, lessening their vulnerability to being ousted by their boards.

Impact on Young Tech Leaders:

The speakers note that Jobs’ experience serves as a cautionary tale for younger tech leaders, contributing to a mistrust between company boards and founders. The speakers argue that this has led to a shift in power dynamics within companies, as newer leaders aim to safeguard against being fired by their boards.

Legacy and Influence:

Steve Jobs’ story has reached almost mythical status in Silicon Valley. The lessons from his career, both the mistakes and triumphs, have influenced a whole generation of tech leaders, even affecting something as trivial as how people dress.

Copying vs. Learning:

Ed Catmull cautions against trying to copy Steve Jobs, asserting that his uniqueness makes imitation futile and superficial. Catmull advocates for embracing core principles like boundary exploration and avoiding conservative thinking, which Jobs excelled at, rather than mimicking his style or persona.

Criteria for Resemblance:

Larry Ellison discusses a “test” to identify similarities to Steve Jobs. He emphasizes an obsessive-compulsive personality focused solely on solving pressing problems. According to Ellison, if you can’t think about anything else but solving a critical issue at work, then you share this trait with Jobs.

Multi-Faceted Genius:

Ellison portrays Jobs as a rare blend of aesthetic sense and technical understanding, despite not being an engineer or programmer. Jobs’ knack for assembling complex systems like the iPad was rooted in his deep comprehension of both design and technology.

The Obsession with Details:

Jobs was not just focused on the end product but was heavily involved in the process. Ellison notes how Jobs acted as a great editor for software and user interface development, continuously reviewing and improving them until he was marginally satisfied.

The Superficial Trap:

Catmull reiterates the risk of superficial understanding, using the iPhone as an example. People often focus on its design but overlook the software’s complexity, which Jobs believed was the challenging part to replicate. Similarly, mimicking Steve Jobs at a superficial level overlooks the underlying complexity that made him unique.

The Lessons to Take:

Both speakers agree that while emulating Jobs is complex, learning from his principles and work ethic is possible. The caution lies in avoiding the trap of focusing on superficial attributes, as Jobs’ true value lay in his intricate understanding of design, technology, and obsessive problem-solving.

Importance of Focus:

Ed Catmull and Larry Ellison discuss Steve Jobs’ intense focus on the creative process rather than on external factors like design or appearance. Jobs’ choice to wear the same clothing every day is cited as an example of his focus on what matters most to him—creating exceptional products.

Contrary to Popular Belief:

Jobs did not focus on making Apple the most valuable company; rather, he was primarily concerned with building something beautiful and innovative. This perspective led him to make decisions that ran counter to prevailing business wisdom. Larry Ellison shares that Jobs called him when Apple surpassed Oracle in market capitalization, not as a point of bragging but as a measure that he was on the right path.

The Creative Entrepreneur:

Jobs is portrayed as a unique blend of creative artist, engineer, and entrepreneur. He was not concerned about stock prices or quarterly earnings. When Apple was struggling, however, he was focused on survival but always with the aim of creating exceptional products.

The Apple Stores Decision:

Both speakers discuss the contrarian decision to open Apple Stores when the prevailing opinion was that brick-and-mortar retail was dying. Jobs saw the stores as an opportunity for brand building and a way to control distribution without giving up profit margins. Ellison recalls being dragged to warehouses to see mock-ups of the stores, highlighting Jobs’ dedication to getting it right.

Not Being a Follower:

Ellison praises Jobs for his contrarian approaches and his ability to envision Apple as a lifestyle brand. Jobs aimed for Apple Stores to be iconic, even comparable to I.M. Pei’s pyramid entrance to the Louvre. This approach was counter to what was popular at the time but proved to be successful.

Risky Yet Brilliant Design:

Ed Catmull starts by discussing the initial designs for the Apple Store. While he found the endeavor very risky, he considered the designs “utterly brilliant.” Contrary to his initial expectations of a modest number of stores, Apple stores proliferated.

Importance of Details:

Larry Ellison recounts his skepticism about the Apple Store and, specifically, about Steve Jobs’ focus on minute details like the translucency of the glass in the store. Ellison questioned whether this was the best use of a CEO’s time, to which Jobs responded that it was essential. This incident emphasizes Jobs’ meticulous attention to detail as a driving factor for his success.

Contrarian Nature:

Both speakers emphasize the contrarian nature of Steve Jobs. At a time when the prevailing wisdom was moving away from physical retail spaces, Jobs decided to invest heavily in brick-and-mortar stores. This contrarian approach differentiates original thinkers like Jobs from followers who merely latch on to industry trends.

Trend Followers in Silicon Valley:

Catmull gives the example of the PC industry, where hundreds of companies were making PCs, most of which eventually died out. Jobs stood out as an original thinker in a valley full of trend followers. Catmull and Ellison emphasize that this willingness to go against the grain was a critical aspect of Jobs’ success.

Brick-and-Mortar Stores as a Contrarian Bet:

Finally, the speakers wrap up by pointing out how Jobs went against the prevailing narrative that brick-and-mortar stores were dead. His decision to invest in physical Apple Stores turned out to be extraordinarily successful, reinforcing the idea that contrarian thinking can lead to innovative breakthroughs.