Overview:
Mike Solana shares an insightful interview with Peter Thiel about his book, “The Diversity Myth.” The discussion focuses on topics beyond the “dumbest clown shit” like technology, religion, and politics. Solana acknowledges that the smartest people in the world, often physicists, may be better off focusing on DEI grants and diversity rather than building destructive weapons.

Thiel’s Disinterest in Discussing “The Diversity Myth”:
Solana recalls their initial meeting 15 years ago, during which he brought up Thiel’s book. Thiel initially showed disinterest in discussing the book, leading Solana to feel silly for bringing it up. Thiel seemed to have moved on from the topic, as if his predictions in the book had not materialized.

Resurgence of Wokeness and DEI:
Solana notes signs of the resurgence of wokeness and DEI around 2012, aligning with his time at Founders Fund. By 2015, these concepts had taken over institutions across the country. “The Diversity Myth” stands as a unique book that accurately predicted the developments of the past 10 years in America.

Retrospective Discussion:
Solana and Thiel aim to have the conversation they could not have 15 years ago. They intend to revisit Thiel’s insights in “The Diversity Myth” and reflect on their relevance to current times.

Changing Perspectives on Campus Culture Wars:
Peter Thiel reflects on his involvement in campus culture wars during the late 1980s and early 1990s. He emphasizes the contrast between the apolitical and optimistic vibe of the internet in the late 1990s and the angry and pessimistic atmosphere of Silicon Valley in recent years.

The Diversity Myth:
Thiel discusses the genesis of his book, The Diversity Myth, co-authored with David Sachs, as a response to campus controversies over Western culture and multiculturalism. He explains that the book was an attempt to make a broader argument about the consequences of ideas originating in elite colleges.

The Evolving Understanding of Diversity:
Thiel notes that the term “diversity” has been used for decades, but its meaning has become increasingly slippery and ambiguous. He suggests that the strength of the book’s title lies in its dual meaning, implying both a critique of superficial diversity and a questioning of the concept itself.

Shifting Focus from Diversity to Distraction:
Thiel argues that the emphasis on diversity has become a distraction from more pressing issues. He proposes that the obsession with diversity may serve as a kind of hypnotic performance, diverting attention from other important matters.

The Need for a Broader Perspective:
Thiel acknowledges that while many of the arguments presented in The Diversity Myth remain valid, he and Sachs failed to consider the bigger picture. He emphasizes the importance of recognizing that there were more significant developments occurring at the time that were not adequately addressed in the book.

Critique of Identity Politics:
Thiel highlights the intensity of identity politics on college campuses during the 1980s and 1990s. He criticizes the tendency to focus on tearing down one’s own culture and history rather than engaging in genuine learning from other cultures.

The Paradoxes and Insanities of Identity Politics:
Identity politics involves paradoxical definitions, as it can mean both uniqueness and sameness. Speech codes and informal restrictions on campus created an environment of fear and stifled free expression.

Four Issues Larger than DEI:
The focus on humanities and culture wars distracted attention from the stagnation in science and technology, especially outside of computer science. Marxist and libertarian critiques argue that campus wars distract from economic issues like inequality and economic growth. Younger generations are experiencing reduced economic expectations and diminished well-being, which requires attention and solutions. Diversity as a false god or substitute for religion has potentially squeezed out certain religious questions.

The State of Science:
Measuring the progress of science can be challenging, as scientists often claim groundbreaking developments are just around the corner. There is a sense that progress in many scientific fields has stalled, and economic improvements have not translated into better living standards. Engineering fields, except for computer science, were seen as stagnant and lacking dynamism in the late 1980s. Computer science, initially considered a less challenging field, became adjacent to the booming internet sector. The promise of futuristic technologies like flying cars has not been fully realized, leading to a sense of disappointment.

The Role of Campuses in the Decline of Science:
Bureaucratization and the peer review process may have hindered breakthrough science on campuses. Military-related achievements in physics may have discouraged the pursuit of fundamental science. The focus on diversity and inclusion may have shifted resources away from basic research and hardcore science.

The Deterioration of College in Science and Technology:
College education in science and technology has seen a decline due to various factors, including an emphasis on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives over scientific advancement. The absence of pressures from other science departments and the lack of a requirement for advanced degrees in computer science have allowed it to flourish outside of academia.

The Rise of Computer Science:
Computer science has emerged as an outlier in the trend of declining college education in science and technology. The absence of the need for advanced degrees in computer science allows individuals to quickly reach the frontier of knowledge and begin innovating. Examples of successful individuals in computer science who dropped out of college, such as Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg, highlight the potential of the field.

The Elongated Credential Requirements in Other Fields:
Other fields, such as biotechnology, require advanced degrees like PhDs for entry-level positions. This elongation of the educational process may be a symptom of a distant frontier in the field.

The Continued Lack of College’s Role in Technology Development:
College still plays a limited role in the development of technology, particularly in fields outside of computer science. While more people are obtaining computer science degrees, it remains the only notable outlier in the economy. Artificial intelligence has also emerged as a field where advanced degrees are not necessarily required for progress.

The Decay of Professional Degrees and Hardcore Science and Engineering Fields:
Professional post-undergraduate degrees, such as MDs, JDs, and MBAs, have experienced a decline in value. Hardcore science and engineering fields, such as electrical engineering, have also faced challenges.

Examples of Successful College Education in the Past:
In the past, college education in science and technology was more successful in providing valuable knowledge and skills. Examples of successful college education in the sciences and technology prior to the rise of distractions include individuals who made significant contributions to their respective fields.

How Science and Technology Progress Occurred:
Historically, science and technology progressed through a combination of practical experimentation and theoretical understanding, often outside of academia. Howard Hughes’s approach to building airplanes exemplifies this practical approach, where trial and error were used to develop successful designs.

The Relationship Between Academia and Industry:
In the past, colleges played a more significant role in translating scientific knowledge into practical applications, fostering a closer connection between academia and industry. The origin of Silicon Valley involved highly skilled electrical engineers who applied their knowledge to develop practical technologies.

The Influence of the Cold War on Science and Technology:
The Cold War context drove efforts to apply scientific advancements to military applications, leading to rapid progress in certain fields. After the Cold War, this focus on practical applications waned, resulting in a shift towards more abstract and theoretical pursuits.

The Decline of Science and Technology:
The overemphasis on military applications of science and technology raised ethical concerns, particularly in the aftermath of World War I and II. The development of nuclear weapons further challenged the utopian ideals of scientific progress, leading to a disillusionment with science and technology. This disillusionment contributed to the social and cultural shifts of the 1960s and 1970s, including the rise of counterculture movements.

The Delayed Reaction and the 20 Under 20 Program:
The negative effects of the overemphasis on military applications took time to manifest, with a significant impact emerging in the late 1960s and 1970s. Peter Thiel’s 20 Under 20 program aimed to encourage and support young individuals with a passion for science and technology, recognizing the need to foster a new generation of innovators.

Thiel’s Initial Proposal and Its Reception:
Thiel’s initial proposal to pay 20 college students to drop out of school was met with significant controversy. Thiel felt that higher education institutions had become overly bureaucratic and corrupt, and he saw this offer as a way to challenge the status quo. Despite the controversy, there was surprisingly little pushback against Thiel’s proposal.

College Debt and the Anti-College Sentiment:
Thiel highlights the significant increase in student debt from $300 billion in 2000 to $2 trillion in the present day. The anti-college sentiment, which gained traction in 2010, has only intensified over time. Thiel believes that the COVID-19 pandemic acted as an accelerant, leading people to question the value and relevance of traditional higher education.

The Decline of Elite Colleges:
Thiel expresses his belief that elite colleges have become echo chambers, detached from the real world. He questions the value of an education focused solely on resume-building and college applications, rather than fostering genuine interests and passions. Thiel suggests that the intense pressure to succeed in these institutions may lead to burnout and a lack of motivation to pursue further achievements.

Starbucks Union’s Strike:
Thiel mentions the Starbucks union’s potential strike, which is not driven by demands for better pay or working conditions. Instead, the union is advocating for a more humane and empowering work environment, including the removal of surveillance cameras and the ability to discuss wages. Thiel views this as a sign of a broader shift in employee expectations and a desire for greater autonomy and respect in the workplace.

Woke Corporations and Distractions:
Peter Thiel considers the diversity and inclusion efforts of corporations as a potential distraction from class struggles and economic interests of workers. He posits that such initiatives may serve as a strategy to divide workers based on gender and race, thereby preventing them from uniting for better wages and working conditions.

The Case of Walmart:
Thiel cites Walmart’s transformation into a “green corporation” in the mid-2000s as an example of a successful corporate strategy to deflect criticism and avoid addressing workers’ economic concerns. By rebranding itself as environmentally conscious, Walmart was able to appease left-wing groups and unions while avoiding the more costly measure of increasing workers’ pay.

Machiavellian Racket and Crazed Ideology:
Thiel suggests that the woke corporate trend is a combination of a calculated strategy and a genuine ideological belief. He argues that it requires a mix of true believers, useful idiots, and Machiavellian individuals to make it effective.

Real Estate and Economic Injustice:
Thiel emphasizes the role of real estate distortions in contributing to economic injustice and social unrest. He aligns himself with Georgist economic analysis, which emphasizes the importance of addressing distortions in land ownership and use.

San Francisco and Manhattan as Examples:
Thiel points to San Francisco and Manhattan as examples of cities where real estate distortions have led to skyrocketing housing costs, displacing residents, and exacerbating social tensions. He argues that these distortions have contributed to the rise of populism and political instability.

Unintended Consequences of Urbanization:
Peter Thiel expresses surprise at the doubling of rents in urban areas over a 15-16 year period, despite the high cost of living in these places. He suggests that an “extraordinary ideological superstructure” and “Stockholm syndrome” may have contributed to this phenomenon, where people are persuaded to accept high rents due to fear or manipulation.

Identity Politics and Urban Living:
Thiel proposes a narrative where people are conditioned to believe that leaving certain urban areas will result in negative consequences, such as violence or discrimination, even if more affordable living options exist elsewhere.

Beneficiaries of Urban Slums:
Thiel points out that the main beneficiaries of high urban rents are landlords and older homeowners who have seen their property values increase. He emphasizes the correlation between rising rents and the prevalence of identity politics, raising questions about the causal relationship between these factors.

Economic Stagnation and Inequality:
Thiel discusses the need for productivity growth to achieve non-inflationary economic growth. He notes that without productivity growth, inequality can worsen and lead to stagnation, affecting the middle class and making it harder for people to believe that their children will have better lives than they did.

The Role of Politics in the Workplace:
Thiel observes that politics has become an essential part of the workplace in recent times. He raises questions about why this happened and whether it is ending, given the recent high-profile reckonings with political language in the office.

Tech Industry’s Shift:
The tech industry experienced a politicization and intensification, with a sense that technology and products alone were no longer sufficient. Employees, particularly in Google, felt like cogs in a vast machine, despite the overall success of tech companies. Issues such as unaffordable housing in Silicon Valley further contributed to a sense of dissatisfaction.

Structural Roots of Dissatisfaction:
The tech industry’s issues were more structural than solely related to the Trump phenomenon. People were primed for anger due to various factors, leading to a receptive audience for political and social shifts.

Google’s Moonshot Programs:
Google’s moonshot science programs, once highly charismatic, lost their appeal over time. The self-driving car project, initially captivating, didn’t garner sustained attention or credit for Google. Google struggled to maintain the brand of intense innovation, leading to vulnerabilities in resisting workforce activism.

Religion’s Decline and the Rise of Woke Religion:
Religion has been declining in America for a long time, and the woke religion seems to be filling the void. The woke religion is similar to Christianity in its concern for victims, but it lacks forgiveness and has a stronger sense of who the victims are.

Three Responses to Bad History:
The Nietzschean, Bronze Age pervert (BAP) response: The history wasn’t that bad, and we shouldn’t feel guilty about it. The woke response: The history was extremely bad, and we need to punish the bad people and separate them from the good people. The Orthodox Christian response: The history was bad, and we need to find a way to forgive.

The Problem of Violence in the Past:
The woke religion is right to address the problem of violence in the past. However, the woke religion’s lack of forgiveness can lead to more violence.

The Rotten Fruits of a Decline in Religion:
The decline in religion has led to a loss of meaning and purpose in life. This has contributed to a rise in mental health problems, addiction, and suicide.

Science and Christianity:
Science and Christianity were once concerned about the truth, but this common value has declined. Today, science is often seen as opposed to religion, and this has contributed to the decline of both.

The Multiverse as a Gateway Drug:
The concept of the multiverse has replaced the idea of a singular universe, leading to questions that science cannot answer. The multiverse has become a gateway to ideas like simulations, Boltzmann brains, and the Matrix, creating a sense of nihilism and uncertainty. This shift away from the concept of a universe has contributed to the abandonment of both religious and scientific truth.

The Price of Escapism:
Embracing ideas like the multiverse and simulations offers an escape from ultimate questions about the world and the universe. However, this escapism comes at a high price: the inability to truly know anything about the world and a lack of progress in understanding and improving it.

Pretending to Ask Questions:
Thiel argues that many people pretend to ask ultimate questions but design their inquiries in a way that ensures they will never find answers. This approach is a way of avoiding genuine questioning and seeking knowledge.

The Correlation with Technological Progress:
Thiel suggests a negative correlation between embracing ideas like the multiverse and technological progress. A focus on these ideas can lead to a lack of curiosity and a willingness to tinker, improve, and make the world better.

Conclusion:
Thiel emphasizes the importance of seeking answers to ultimate questions and pursuing knowledge, even if it means confronting challenging ideas. He believes that embracing escapism and nihilism comes at a high cost and hinders technological progress and our understanding of the world.

China as a Geopolitical Rival to the US:
Peter Thiel views China as a massive geopolitical rival to the US, with the potential to surpass the US in terms of GDP. The rivalry between China and the US is seen as analogous to historical power competitions, such as Victorian Britain against Wilhelmine Germany before World War I. Thiel emphasizes the totalitarian nature of China’s government and the high stakes involved in managing the US-China relationship.

Unhealthy Globalization and Entanglement with China:
Thiel criticizes the current form of globalization between the US and China, which he views as unhealthy and dependent on unfair trade practices. He draws a parallel to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline between Germany and Russia, highlighting the potential risks of becoming overly entangled with countries with questionable motives. Thiel suggests that the US has become entangled with China through numerous “pipelines,” leading to an unhealthy interdependence.

Distractions from the US-China Relationship:
Thiel believes that distractions from the primary focus on managing the US-China relationship are detrimental. He points to issues such as DEI and wokeness as potential distractions, as they divert attention and resources from addressing the challenges posed by China. Thiel emphasizes the need to recognize the potential role of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) in promoting these distractions to weaken the US.

China’s Internal Challenges and Religious Distraction:
Thiel acknowledges the challenges faced by China, such as its atheist ideology and declining birth rates, which may hinder its long-term success. He compares China’s “Xi Jinping thought” to wokeness, suggesting that both ideologies can be distracting and harmful. Thiel cautions against underestimating China’s capabilities and emphasizes the need to address the US-China relationship with a balanced approach, avoiding both complacency and alarmism.

Finding a Balance in Managing the US-China Relationship:
Thiel stresses the importance of carefully considering policies related to semiconductors, trade, and other areas in the context of the US-China relationship. He highlights the complexity of the situation and the need for careful analysis and strategic decision-making to navigate the challenges posed by China. Thiel acknowledges the difficulty of the fight against distractions and the need to prioritize addressing the US-China relationship while also recognizing the importance of science, academics, economics, and religion.

Background:
After the fall of the Berlin Wall, Russia was no longer perceived as a serious threat, leading to a decline in focus on geopolitics. China’s rise as a potential adversary has not garnered the same level of concern.

Kissinger’s Opening to China:
In the 1970s and 1980s, anti-communists like Nixon and Reagan adopted a strategy of allying with China to counterbalance the Soviet Union. This realpolitik approach led to the opening of relations with China in 1972 and continued under the Reagan administration.

Tiananmen Square Massacre:
Despite the Chinese government’s brutal crackdown on pro-democracy protesters in Tiananmen Square in 1989, the Bush administration maintained its focus on China’s anti-Soviet stance. The Berlin Wall fell six months later, potentially influencing the West’s reaction to the massacre.

Different Interpretations of the Fall of the Berlin Wall:
In the West, the fall of the Berlin Wall was seen as a sign that communist systems would eventually collapse under their weight. In China, it was interpreted as a lesson to avoid the mistakes made by the Soviet Union, particularly in terms of political openness.

China’s Response:
China adopted a strategy of economic restructuring (perestroika) without political opening (glasnost), aiming to avoid the fate of the Soviet Union. This approach has contributed to China’s continued economic growth and global influence.

The Current Social Landscape:
The social distractions that dominated the tech industry in recent years have subsided, creating a more open and less restrictive environment for discussion and innovation. The peak of social distractions appears to have been reached in 2020, and since then, there has been a gradual shift towards greater openness, particularly in the tech sector. Despite this progress, many workplace conversations and discussions are still restricted, hindering the free exchange of ideas.

The Changing Perception of China:
The challenge posed by China’s growing power is becoming increasingly recognized, leading to a bipartisan consensus on the need for action. Other countries are also aligning with the US view on the China issue, acknowledging the need to address the geopolitical implications. Institutions that previously benefited from bilateral relations with China are now facing the consequences of decoupling and de-risking, as the relationship between the US and China continues to deteriorate.

The Diverging Trends and Shifting Attitudes:
The current moment marks a departure from the trends of the past five to seven years, with a shift towards less distraction and a greater focus on pressing issues. The science and economic stagnation, along with the challenges in higher education, are becoming more apparent and demand attention. The anti-Xi Jinping sentiment is gaining momentum, as people recognize the threat posed by totalitarian China and its atheist ideology. The woke, left-leaning ideology is losing energy and influence, weakening their opposition to emerging technologies like AI.

The Rise of AI and the Future of Technology:
The breakthrough in large language models using AI is seen as a significant development, despite its potential risks and disruptions to various jobs. The exhausted state of the current political correctness and the lack of energy to fight against AI create an opportunity for the future to happen without significant resistance. The absence of the need for government projects or university involvement in AI development suggests that progress will continue as long as it is not actively hindered.